Result a smashing success
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So I tried paddle kneading the dough for ~4 minutes and then doing 6 folds. 50% rise in ~4 hrs and then ~18 hrs in the fridge. Not much of a difference.
I was reviewing my spreadsheet (I started keeping one last yr!), and I think I’m messing around w/ too many variables at once. I’m going to try the recipe from early Feb 2023 (I posted the results here) but w/ the Old World Bread Flour (75% hydration) to see if this gives me a good result again. And then maybe I’ll play around w/ diff flours…
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6 folds or 6 sets of folds?
is your starter floating before being used for the dough?
6 sets of folds.
I haven’t used the starter floating test for 1–2 yrs since a KA article indicated that, if a healthy starter is fed w/i a wk’s time, it’s generally fine to use at any point (assuming refrigerated btw feedings).
At any rate, the starter had been fed mainly daily over the past wk and seemed to be growing pretty vigorously. I actually used a tape measure to determine the height of the dough; it went up ~50% in ~4 hrs I’ve also had the same issues w/ the final loaf when I did use the float test. So I think the starter is okay.
I think a high hydration dough that isn’t heavily kneaded just isn’t going to get a ton of rise since the only time I’ve had good rise was when I cut the hydration by 3%. Will try that this weekend post results.
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if it’s growing, bubbling and is light i’m sure it’s floating… i start with water and add starter so i always get to double check if it’s a floater… sounds like your starter is active and you’re doing enough folding. might want to try coil folds instead. i’ve heard it reported they’re more effective. but i just do very aggressive stretch and folds. i’ll just reiterate that you dont want to see too much rise before going to the fridge. 50% is plenty for bulk proof. respect the continued efforts
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Thanks!!! I do think keeping the spreadsheet has helped b/c I can see what I’ve been changing.
I should also add that the crumb (in terms of mouthfeel) has still been pretty decent on these last 2 loaves. The very last one doesn’t seem to have gone stale as quickly as usual, so I think the additional folding and/or dec’d bulk ferment helped w/ that…
Wish me luck for the next loaf. 
Welp, the overall shape is correct. I should also add that, when I dump the dough into the dutch oven, it’s usually only slightly taller than a pancake. So all of my loaves have have some oven spring, but I want more!!!
This one had the best smell, the most lift (although still not as much as I’d like), and probably the best crumb (by a small margin). Crust was nicely chewy w/o being tough. I consider this a success and would be actually pretty happy serving this to guests, even if it doesn’t LOOK that diff from my other ones.
This was a 36-hr fridge proof.
I do wonder if it might be my water temp (vs. what I was doing earlier in the yr). I’ve been using close to 80 deg water these last few rounds. Earlier in the yr (and late last yr), I was using tap-temp water (65 deg). Am baking a loaf for a party next weekend and will try that fridge temp for my water to see what happens. I had been using water temp in the low 70s for a few yrs and thought I’d give the warmer temp a try (and remember that, when I tried the warmer temps yrs ago, my bread always seemed a bit slack).
I also get better scoring when I use my serrated knife (::running and ducking::).
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What flour are you using ?
“Old World” bread flour from Central Milling, 12.5% protein content.
You had suggested higher protein content flour previously. I cannot recall if the bake from late 11/2022 used KA bread flour.
Looks similar to ours - we got better oven spring when switched to King Arthur Special Patent
How is the flavor?
My memory is that, when I used all KA bread flour once, the taste was fairly bland.
Thankfully, my bread at this point tastes pretty good, and the crumb is not too dense or gummy (I let if cool overnight b/f cutting). I’m mainly after a certain cosmetic asthetic now.
My next attempt might be friend’s recipe that uses combo of commercial yeast + starter…
We like it but mainly use it in quick high hydration breads in the moment
Maybe a topic for a new thread, but what is a high hydration quick bread???
Recipes along the line of Artisan Bread in five Minutes a Day
That’s their blog which has a few recipes but we tend to rely on their books
Here is the master recipe
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36 hours seems like way too long of a proof to me. I certainly no expert on sourdough so maybe someone else will chime in to tell me I’m wrong but I remember reading that during super long proofs the gluten begins to break down. Maybe try to stick to a baking schedule closer to @Nemroz
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I remember reading that somewhere, too. The blog where I got the recipe says the cold proof can last as long as 48 hrs (!!!), which seems kind of insane to me. My work schedule made it so that a 36 hr proof was actually very convenient, so I thought I’d give it a try.
Blog author recommends a cold proof as close to 24 hrs as possible, and I think I’ve gotten good results when I’ve done 18 – 24 (I think I did an overnight one b/f and didn’t think the final loaf had enough flavor).
Just read my friend’s recipe; it’s a relatively quick rise, so I think I’ll skip that for now.
SO… I think my next loaf will be coldish water (65–70 deg, which has worked well for me in the past) and a fridge proof no longer than 24 hrs.
I think I’m happier to try experimenting b/c I’ve gotten to the point where I get pretty “serve-able” bread each time (whereas my attempts from a few yrs ago could be great or could be so, so bad).
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Long proofs are really advanced level. That’ll take me a decade to graduate to. It’ll be too sour or relaxed for me. But I started with always going 2 day cold ferments and it was working but again was souring too much. It’s about the starter ratios, temp control but have to build more strength
Like why though. I like to build flavor with rye or spelt or butter instead
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How much rye? I LOVE the flavor, but I think it can make the dough SO slack (no gluten and might actually interfere w/ gluten development?). I’ve had fewer true (bad) bombs since eliminating the rye.
Yeah, I think I got started on bread totally the wrong way. NYT no-knead and then jumped into high hydration w/o realizing that high hydration is… difficult. But feel like I can’t go back now. 
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Anything under 20% should be fine but start with 5% and if you like it try 10%
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Yep. I’m just under 10%