Objective, meaning your personal opinion? I’m still so confused. Can you name a restaurant in the country doing better Jewish style deli? I’m guessing either no or very few. So once again how can Langer’s be mediocre if it’s one of the best. Seems to me Jewish deli (or non deli dishes at the deli) is not your thing. Absolutely nothing wrong with that but saying I dislike this restaurant therefore it’s mediocre is a strange conclusion. Despite all that, I enjoy your contributions to the FTC community, carry on.
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Because you don’t like some dishes it is objectively mediocre - just curious how old are you ? You seem to be (not only based on your posts in this discussion) somewhere in your very early 20s with little experience outside of your little bubble
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As someone who also doesn’t eat meat, although I do eat fish and occasionally chicken, I also don’t get it. I appreciate the reviews of @PeonyWarrior because although I haven’t been to Langers in years, if I did happen to find myself there (for instance someone else wanted to meet there), I could see myself ordering a salad and lox and bagel, so I appreciate knowing that I should stay away from them and go with something perhaps safer like eggs.
IMHO, If a restaurant has an item on its menu, it’s fair game for review and extremely helpful to someone who might some day order the same thing. (By the way, before it closed, I ordered lox and bagel from Greenblatt’s and was shocked at how awful it was. I would have appreciated if someone had told me no, whatever you do, do not order lox and bagel from that restaurant).
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Warrior: It’s an interesting take that the person who has only criticized restaurants, not people, is the immature one among us two. Anyway, I do not apologize for contending that a restaurant that serves airplane quality vegetables, cheap convenience store condiments, canned black olives, gritty defrosted whitefish, factory cheese, and the worst bagels I’ve had in LA is objectively mediocre.
Warrior: I went to Nate and Al’s once, many years ago. I thought it was poor quality, but I can’t compare it to Langer’s. In NYC, the closest places I’ve been to are Russ and Daughters and Ess a Bagel. I consider those two places overwhelmingly superior to Langer’s, at least for quality of fish, bagels, and cream cheese.
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I totally get why you’d compare all these places, as many Jewish delis have gestured towards/become generalists with assimilation and the threat of (restaurant) extinction.
However, they are separate categories of restaurant, at least as far as Ashkenazi (European) Jewish food goes: delis, appetizing stores, and dairy restaurants. Obviously there was overlap, but before assimilation, when most or many American Jews kept kosher, restaurants served the kosher practices of the community and specialization reigned: knish places, pickle purveyors, bialy sellers, Sammy’s Roumanian in addition to deli and bagels and smoked fish.
Appetizing restaurants are Barney Greengrass, Murray’s, Russ and Daughters etc. Delicatessens typically were for meat, knishes, maybe a matzo ball soup or chicken. Dairy restaurants were a bit more generalist, though only serving dairy, fish, veggies. Think blintzes, kasha varniskes, borscht, schav, matzo brei.
Don’t think I realized I was bringing that context to this discussion - specialization and where to go to get specific types of Ashkenazi food - but that’s informing some of the responses here. Most of us see Langer’s or any deli as a place specializing in pastrami, corned beef, tongue etc, even though the menu is comically massive.
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Well what do you know you went to Russ and Daughters for the bagels, fish, and cream cheese. Their speciality. Of course it’s gonna be superior.
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It’s been yrs since I’ve been to Langer’s, but I went to Daughter’s Deli for the first time on Sat and, while I liked it, the Papa (aka #19) didn’t send me like Langer’s does. There wasn’t enough pastrami (or, at least, not as much as I would’ve liked, although it looks quite full in my pic). The coleslaw totally overpowered the pastrami. Potato salad was also bizarrely sweet. The quality is there, but the calibration of the whole thing seemed a bit “off” to me.
And it was $20.
Chicken schnitzel, though, was great. Nice and crispy.
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@PeonyWarrior, I like Russ and daughters too, great place but they don’t offer pastrami, corned beef, brisket, tongue, etc. So pretty tough to compare to Langer’s. As for Ess-a-bagel, you’re telling me you had their pastrami or any deli meats and they were comparable to Langer’s? We must have very different taste preferences then. I didn’t even think their bagels (their specialty) were all that great. When I was growing up, we got our bagels at a bagel shop and we got our deli at a deli. I’ve never gotten good bagels at a deli. To me R&D and Ess-a are bagel shops. But I admit I’m splitting hairs here, just my 2 cents.
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Warrior: thank you. I had no idea about this aspect of Jewish tradition, and I appreciated learning about it. I also apologize for a trolling tone in some of my posts.
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Warrior: I have only had the fish and bagels at Ess a Bagel. Personally, I like the fish and bagels there better than any other place I’ve tried in NYC, with Russ and Daughters being a close second (though I would guess the fish there is better than at Ess a Bagel). As I mentioned in the Langer’s thread, I have only eaten pastrami at one restaurant — Langer’s — and it was very good.
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Who wouldn’t be “fanatically devoted” to a place that serves the “worlds best pastrami”? If you love pastrami. 
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Ess a Bagel is my favorite NY spot for bagels and fish. Russ and Daughters’ bagels, IMO, are equal but not superior to Ess A Bagel. I haven’t been to Langer’s, but I remember my first visit to Katz. I was disappointed and did not think that it lived up to its hype. In fact, there was a small deli not far from Katz, which I thought was much better and returned to frequently. I haven’t been to Langer’s, but since it is so loved by so many, it must be doing something right.
“There is no sincerer love than the love of food." George Bernard Shaw
You consistently use this word as if there is such a thing. The examples you site work sometimes i.e. “gritty defrosted whitefish” but the others are pretty darn classist or are without substance i.e. “cheap convenience store condiments” “factory cheese.”
Some people dont have access to anything better than convenience store condiments, canned black olives and factory cheese. Some people do amazing things with their limited resources. Don’t get me wrong this is not me saying that a restaurant like Langer’s cant do better with its ingredient choices. It can. What I am saying is the criticisms you are lobbing that have to do with class are absolutely not objective.
A lot of your writing on this forum feels like it is punching down. Just because some tire-shilling gatekeeper gives a cassoulet or a pastrami sandwich a gold star never forget that a lot of the food that you seem to value came out of poverty. Next time you shove a taco in your face or eat some salami use that as a reminder of the level of possibility and deliciousness that exists in the spaces you talk about so pejoratively.
To quote Kendrick “even a small lighter can burn a bridge.” Please stop acting like there is anything objective about what you are saying. It’s killing the vibe.
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Unless you’re being sarcastic, “objectively mediocre” just means you don’t understand the difference between fact (objective) and opinion (subjective).
For anything other than pastrami, maybe brisket, and rye eaten straight from the warming drawer, you don’t even need to leave LA to do better.
I think the tongue sandwich at Langer’s is worth mention as well. It might be their second best item.
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Are you saying there are objective truths in preferences of food, music, art, etc?
Facts are objective. Opinions are subjective. Stating an opinion as a matter of fact can be a joke or a sign that you don’t understand the difference.
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So, no?
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Yes, Langers being the best pastrami on the planet is an objective truth 
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