When did ethnic foods become "so expensive"?

Okay, that is DEFINITELY not the way my family had porrridge!!! :smiley: Where is that from?

But it also brings up another interesting idea… Porridge was never the main course, for my family (except for breakfast). It’s like a place trying to sustain itself w/ variations on french fries w/o the steak or the burger. Not gonna happen.

But call it poutine, and it’s a whole 'nother ballgame… And even then, you’d still expect other types of entrees to be on the menu b/c you can only fries every so often…

Edit: I was discussing this thread w/ @SpockSpork, and he immediately said, “That sounds like a restaurant trying to support itself on nothing but variations of mashed potatoes.”

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US$29 AYCE

Off topic, but only briefly: I might be going to Singapore this winter! First time there. This place worth trying? B/c that spread seems divine.

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It’s a pretty good gluttonous spread if you are in the mood for porridge. It was my late night supper spot but looks like its served during regular dining hour these days. Still looks good though. There are more affordable options, just do a search for Teochew porridge.

Or you can hop to one of the popular Geylang (red light district) claypot frog porridge joints

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Out of curiosity, I looked up Shirley Chung’s Ms. Chi Cafe and Mei Lin’s Nightshade for their porridge/congee dishes. They sell for $11 and $20 respectively, though Ms. Chi’s version is vegetarian. How do those portion sizes compare with Minh Phan’s?
While I’d like to give it a try, I don’t find myself in the city often and when I do, it’s hard for me to pick P&P over all the other options. I see what @paranoidgarliclover is saying…this is a hard sell for folks who grew up eating this type of dish even though you want to respect the chef’s intent and and passion. Agree with @Ns1 that chef could probably be more successful if she called it Vietnamese/Asian risotto…the masses would likely fall for that one and agree to the price point.
That being said, I hope that this venture is successful because that will only aid in elevating Asian cuisine.

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Nightshade’s looks bigger than P&P’s. It’s a pretty substantial dish.

Speaking for myself only, I buy dim sum porridge because it’s so much better than what I had growing up. But it’s still only $6.

Have I ever wondered what $20 pho would taste like? Yes.

Have I ever wondered what $20 porridge would taste like? No. I would be trying it not because I generally want to eat high class porridge, but because I want a data point for this thread.

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Do Yelpers make similar complaints about Sqirl’s porridge?

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A few random comments:

To me, original ethnic versions as baseline comparisons are inevitable. Although the comparisons can be valid assuming one has had the original before and knows exactly what went into it. No point comparing inferior MSG jacked up product in a Chinatown or random place that is cheaper.

However if the approach and execution of the dish being questioned results in a variation or a finished product that is otherwise drastically or at least notably different, worthy of exploring, is delicious, then one should at the very least take into consideration cost, skill, technique, sourcing, and all sorts of other factors involved (not to mention rent, and also seeing what kind of clientele the establishment attracts as mainstays). Basically, keep an open mind. However people are people, and certain communities in the old world (as well as locals) are either narrow minded that way, do not care about that part and only think one way as a customer, yet they are completely oblivious to wage/living conditions, standard of living (amongst many other factors), and the way things are done around here. For example it is completely pointless to compare Taiwanese street food in Taipei (let alone OG Tainan) to that oyster noodle/pancake or pork intestine noodle you can find in the SGV that’s not even going to be close, larger portioned, lesser quality, and more expensive. Why lament this when other parts of California would also be happy to have something edible even if it is not close, since Northern California Taiwanese food scene is way sadder (e.g. we don’t even have a legit Taiwanese breakfast joint up here in the vein of Huge Tree, Four Seas, Yi Mei etc). It’s all perspective. Although if something that could have improved in the overseas version but the restaurant fails to execute in that manner, then any criticism of what could have made that dish better within reason, are all valid.

It is completely another discussion if someone is “hipsterfying” something, it ends up getting a Michelin star, and you know there are people doing something similar but totally next level and far better, so you have the right context to call out what is good or what is not good. I cannot comment on Porridge and Puffs, but I think I get where all these contrasting viewpoints are coming from. I don’t like the term “racist” being thrown around because we already live in a very polarized America where sensitivity and short fuses are the norm. Understandable if Chef Phan is being pigeon holed by her own kind and feels intense frustration by their lack of support and willing to embrace let alone understand, although she could add more fuel to the fire in a good way if there is proof those same people would gladly line up for say… $20 ramen (hypocrisy at its finest… we see this all the time in Hong Kong when some locals complain when the price of tiny bowl of legit Hong Kong wonton noodles which is a snack portion, is expensive, but they will gladly and quckly shell out $30 for a plate of high end pasta or $20 for tonkotsu ramen so thicc that glues your throat shut).

As far as the $20 ramen comment made earlier, that is a factor of the popularity of the noodle bowl itself that blew up in its own face outside of Japan; people hopping on bandwagon trends even without understanding the culture behind ramen and/or forcing themselves to like it (and even behaving as if they don’t want to be left behind), and others cashing in on the trend. You may have fierce competition in Japan and over here, but the cost of making that bowl is high enough that people are willing to pay for it (and wait an insane amount of time). Even more so if there’s an elevation of brand recognition (e.g. an official branch or franchise of a famous restaurant from Japan). The worst is having to spend extra in the event the restaurant prides itself on quality and goes the extra mile to source better quality ingredients, just to reproduce something remotely close to the original. We have already lost in terms of access and quality of ingredients here vs Japan (if using the ramen comparison), whether that pork is all naturally grown, organic grain fed free range chicken (and omega three rich eggs), and even then the quality is not even close. But this is different than the issue with Porridge and Puffs.

Real estate and the cost of doing business is skyrocketing, at least in Northern California/San Francisco. Some business owners might feel they need to do something completely different in order to stand out and survive. Kudos to those who stick to their guns and principles to try to do something different…but hopefully it is delicious. As far as places that have achieved success but the scope is limited and taste entirely subjective… I guess more power to them. For example, one Michelin star Mister Jiu’s in San Francisco…there are those who love the place to bits, and there are some like me and those in the Cantonese/Chinese community (including industry people) that absolutely do not get it nor agree with its high rating (and in fact I was very displeased with the quality and taste of the food during one visit). However I get the concept, Mister Jiu’s is not out to do “upscale comfort food” only, it is his own take and spin with his fine dining approach. By the nature of its design, it (food/restaurant/service entire package all combined) will delight and offend simultaneously. The quantity and quality of one’s reaction will vary according to sensitivity, proclivities/preferences, recognizing presence (or lack thereof) of details and many more.

The world is big enough for everything, even stuff that is not so good which is part of the variety. We have choices we can make. Nobody should tell others how they should make it, although it is sad if people make decisions either off the cuff or don’t care to inform themselves. But again, people are people. I’m just glad that in the case of Mister Jiu’s I can choose to end the evening with a bang bang, walk to my local favorite Chinatown greasy stir fry joint approved by Canto restaurant industry people (beef chow fun umami explosions with so much aromatic grease it looks shinier than a car with a new coat of Armor All) and wash down what I had at Jiu’s with a Tsing Tao with friends and hobble home with a smile on my face.

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Haven’t been to Mister Jiu but that’s how I feel with my recent lone visit at the newly minted Bistro Na…I see the extra effort and the generally higher quality ingredients but the star boggles my mind…it’s a token star for a Chinese eatery

I’ve been to Mister Jiu’s. While I appreciate the ethos of what Chef Brandon is trying to do for the community, he’s gotta step it up a notch in the food department.

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I’m starting to get the feeling you didn’t like P+P?

Oh those damn kids.

You’re really on a roll! I hope there’s more.

Or you can go to Lu’s Garden in San Gabriel.

Ruen Pair and Hollywood Thai has a Chiu Chow-Thai menu that pairs well with plain porridge (salty turnip and egg, black egg and basil, ong choy, clams and basil, braised duck, Thai style omelette with ground pork,)

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I enjoyed my meal there, but I can see where the self-hating racist Asian Yelpers are coming from regarding portion size.

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I’ve eaten very well at Mr. Jiu’s. Sourcing, decor, service, wine list, etc. are all first-rate by contemporary SF standards. Their Michelin star makes as much sense to me as Osteria Mozza’s or SPQR’s. Given how booked up the place is, I don’t think Jew needs to step anything up a notch.

Yeah, she must be talkin’ about some other self-hating racist Asian Yelpers, lol. Because these seemed to have some valid points.

My lunch at Porridge and Puffs was my favorite meal of the year so far. For me, the portion size was perfect given the richness of porridge and the cost felt quite reasonable for a thoughtfully composed dish which radiated complexity and finesse.

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have not read the whole thread but the answer surely is that the cheap places should also be charging more. both so that employees can be paid livable wages and because the food deserves it. there’s no reason why mid-tier chinese food (in terms of quality) should be cheaper than mid-tier italian food (in terms of quality).

the price floor as a whole needs to rise. then we can have true apples to apples comparisons.

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This discussion reminds me of something Enrique Olvera said in Chef’s Table: he talked about how for a long time Mexicans themselves considered their food as not worth admiration and lacking sophistication: peasant food. He said that cooks and chefs would be sent to France/Italy to train and then apply French techniques to food back at home. But he says that with Pujol, he’s celebrating Mexican technique and finesse and challenging our notions that Mexican food is all cheap/fast/street food etc.

Here we are making the same comments about Chinese food in general, that congee or porridge is peasant food, that we would never imagine ordering it in a restaurant let alone a fancy version of it. Chef Olvera is not making street tacos, Chef Minh is not making your grandma’s congee.

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