Nice, I can take quotes out if context too!
A lot of you are so butthurt by the implication that we play a role in the system.
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Just surprised how much you point fingers at others instead of thinking about mistakes by the restaurant industry itself. Even if the customer isn’t always right, the majority of issues have very little to do with the “fault” of the customer (beside having less and less money available for dining and restaurants ignoring it)
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In context you were blaming customers for not filling up Birdie G’s 180 seats often enough.
It is common for people to mourn that a place they never go to is closing. It’s good to be a regular at places you like.
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Actually in context I was replying to a comment about restaurants creating toxic environments.
I do think about restaurant mistakes. I lived the life and worked in a lot of mismanaged restaurants. My point remains the same. Restaurants have been mismanaged since the beginning of time–you go from being good at cooking to having to run a business with no training whatsoever. But we as a culture have an appetite for failure. If you look at our media/influencer landscape, the comments on their posts, and still think that is up for debate, I am not sure what we’re doing here. If saying the culture surrounding restaurant consumption shares in the blame is “pointing fingers,” then sure, I am.
A lot of grace being extended to customers because of macroeconomic conditions. But the same are pressing on the industry and we are blaming them for creating toxicity? Nearly every restaurant runs off of a version of the same model, where 30% of revenue is allocated to fixed costs, food costs, and labor. Fixed costs and food costs have skyrocketed, but I see a lot more backlash about servers making $18 an hour and restaurants being unfair (for following the same model they always have) than insurance companies and landlords charging what they do. The blame is so misplaced.
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If you’re referring to health insurance companies, I’m going to have to disagree w/ you. UHC CEO being killed and the rest of the world shrugging and not giving a f*ck is very much a form of backlash (IMHO).
Im not. Referring to restaurant insurance packages, costs of which are completely insane right now.
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Ah, I see.
I don’t know if I see a lot of backlash here (on FTC) for servers making $18/hr? I think in the world outside of FTC such backlash could certainly be occurring.
But I think maybe that split is why some here might confused about the point you are trying to make. FTC posters are probably very different than the “average” restaurant customer. And the two may not intersect/interact that much (in terms of discussing issues surrounding restaurants, at least). So perhaps many of the average restaurant customers really can be quite toxic (and maybe there are aspects of that toxicity that are unqiue to LA) but that this is not so obvious to those of us posting here who also do not work in the restaurant business?
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I completely disagree with that. Having lived now half of my life in the US and half in Europe, it is on many levels quite obvious that the US had and still has a very different mindset in terms of supporting business (including restaurants) and they are very much the opposite of a culture with an appetite for failure. In many parts of Europe people would be much, much more vocal about negative points of a restaurant and wouldn’t hold back even during a visit. Here in the US even the crappiest service (and most service in the US is on a much lower level when compared to Europe) is still supported and given a normal tip. Quality of food doesn’t have any impact on tips or that people complain etc. If you think here in the US is a culture with an appetite for failure better never do business in Europe or you would give up after a week. Again, beside the financial situation there is always surprisingly little pushback by customers in the US independently what and how they get treated in restaurants
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This is a legtimately insane take.
This is most definitely not the case. A quick sweep of reddit and twitter will show you people punish servers for most mistakes in a kitchen/BOH with not tipping - or are just so against tipping at all - and will complain about anything (they just do it online and not to people’s faces) more than they will praise. Asking friends who are FOH they can attest to this, the amount of people who just don’t tip at all or don’t tip/vocalize their issues directly and then complain online is staggering.
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The fact is that since we live in the US now for 25 years people have always complained about tipping but ultimately nothing has changed beside that the expectation of the serving staff wrt % has increased over the years. At the same time every time I eat in Europe it remembers me how often you get lousy service in the US but there is absolutely no consequences and I have seen it many times that waiter, managers or owners have complained with the customer if they didn’t leave any or very little tip after bad service.
Go to Burdell.
I mean you are literally airing your resentment on a food forum and describing a mentality of workers needing to be punished, just kinda seems like youre proving my point for me.
Anyway I think most people will be relieved to hear that my time on this forum has run its course. The complete opposition to self reflection or criticism is not entirely surprising, but pretty disheartening to be a part of with the industry being in the state that it is in.
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A food forum isn’t “real” life and luckily I have talked with many restaurant owners who are much more self reflective about tipping, service etc. instead of complaining about the “state of the industry”
My argument isn’t that tipping culture isn’t broken, it is. Nor that the US has better or worse service than Europe (it depends where).
It’s that people air their complaints about tipping culture by not tipping when a server is most likely not at fault. And if there is a fault they don’t communicate it to a restaurant in person like a normal human. No one wins. I’m saying consumers take out their ire with tipping culture on employees that are not the ones perpetuating that culture at all. It’s a pretty nice microcosm of the US in general.
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I think that’s where we disagree - most people who are unhappy with service still tip nearly normal as there is a lot of pressure in this tipping society and also direct pressure from owners and waiters in restaurants if somebody doesn’t tip (seen often enough) People might say they wouldn’t tip when they got bad service but I am sure 99% of them still tip in the end.
You really expect that you want to further ruin an evening by potentially having discussions with the server or manager about service issues ? In addition, there are so often obvious issues which are still ignored. I don’t know how often we had the discussion in restaurants with servers that we want dishes not all hitting the table at the same time - the answer is always full of confidence that it won’t happen and then it of course happens (you also read it often enough in the board) - do you really want then in this situation start a discussion with them ? (and this is just one example of such obvious issues)
Listen man - decent people still tip. I implore you to look at any comment thread on Reddit and you’ll see that a good amount of dummies don’t. I’m not saying it’s everyone.
And yes, sometimes there are service issues. I’m making the case that often people take out non FOH issues with servers and deprive them of their tip. Or they think they are “sticking it to tipping culture” by not doing so.
Both your examples are still valid. I’m not arguing whether you make a night worse by blanket complaining in person. But sometimes you want to let management know of things that are worth flagging. Dishes hitting too quick? Yeah maybe I wouldn’t bring it up. It sometimes isn’t worth the squeeze. A hair? Crab shell? Badly cooked protein (to an extent?) you might be helping by letting them know so they can improve. But a lot of people don’t have that judgement, and will take it out on google reviews or after the fact and not allow the CHANCE for good hospitality.
I worked in restaurants for a long time, in New York and LA - even Chicago. I cannot speak for other cities or Europe - but that’s my experience. Appreciate the arguments but you’re using some bad faith examples.
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Who?
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