@grog Hmmn, I have three bottles of 2016 Cotes de Nuits, but if they really need 5-10 more years, I hate to “waste” any of them. I would be perfectly happy to drink champagne again at Kojima but for not everyone with whom I would be dining loves champagne. When I went before, I was happy to drink champagne with all the courses, but what really came alive was pairing the champagne with the basque cheesecake. I guess it cut through the richness of the cheesecake even though the cheesecake wasn’t decadent in the sense of an American-style cheesecake.
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Thought you only had one bottle. If you have 3 bottles, then go for it. Besides, I’m just one guy with an opinion. I’m sure it will deliver pleasure. Saving bottles to drink when you think it will be optimal is a difficult task. I’d rather drink a wine on the younger side rather than too old.
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champagne is not made better by eating it with fried chicken or whatever other pairing people recommend is my point.
pairings are BS in 99% of cases
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I agree. The pairing can be viewed as an extension of the dish–like something else on the plate but in a glass instead. Many wines (especially non-creamy, non-oaky white wines or sparkling wines) don’t detract from most foods, but when a somm finds an ideal match it really adds to the experience.
To try to see things from Clayfu’s perspective: I can agree that taking a fabulous wine and pairing it with food does not improve the wine and is likely to detract from it. I’d rather drink 15-year-old first growth Bordeaux by itself than with a steak. The very best wines–at least reds–deserve to be savored on their own. But I think pairings are more about the wine enhancing the food than the food enhancing the wine. That Bordeaux would greatly improve the experience of eating the steak. Good wine is pretty much the only reason I would eat steak.
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Respectfully disagree.
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probably drifting into a wine/alcohol pairings thread now, but in the context of kappo-style Japanese food, some pairings whereby the food and alcohol are reciprocally improved, imo: sake with ankimo (kijoshu), “ichigo-ni,” mizudako, tako sakurani, etc.
with the kind of meal in pictures above, we’re talking about a wide swath of ingredients and preparations, so bringing a single bottle of wine for the whole meal is a bit trickier to nail. when it comes to fixed wine pairings served at restaurants, often the economic considerations result in a parade of mediocre wines. for Japanese food, sake will naturally complement the meal better imo, meaning the food and sake will complete each other (some sakes are even built for specific pairings), the economic aspects are better for pairing too in most cases, etc. but i digress.
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I’ve not disregarded an individual based on their opinion so quickly in a long time.
Besides setting and company, nothing enhances a meal better than an excellent pairing.
The excessive use of truffles, caviar, and Wagyu to improve or elevate a dish is 99% BS. A well-thought-out and curated wine pairing is fucking divine.
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agree!
congrats - near impossible to do in a multi course meal. You all can keep imagining that you’ve paired something and it’s magical - especially at a restaurant, but it’s not happening.
@pomodoro point is exactly correct about the wide swath of ingredients and preparations. Even a single grape from a single region will express itself countless ways through a producer. The romanticism of a wine and food pairing is much stronger than the reality of it.
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Coming to a general topics near you -Wine Pairing: Threat or Menace? 
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yes i think it’s fun to experiment with pairing with corkage, but tbh, i think it would probably help to try the menu first to get a sense of the food’s character to get it really right. i probably won’t really get it spot on at the end, but it’s just interesting to try.
going in blind or just based on some common guidelines / oft-quoted maxims in food pairing (“duck with Volnay”) will be quite difficult. often it comes down to the sauce and preparation (the hoisin sauce and green onion whites in a Peking duck dish, for example, might end up swaying me another way). the smartest pairings i’ve experienced really considered exactly how the dish was cooked - i’m thinking of varied pairings of a dish at the same restaurant through different seasons.
for Japanese food, this can be especially challenging for sushi as well - it’s about the shari’s profile especially, the style of the meal (what kind of otsumami, if any), emphasis on types of neta, etc. etc. getting it right for the first time, if at all, will be very difficult with multi-course meals whether it’s sushi or more kappo like the kind of food we’re talking about at Kojima. getting in the ballpark? yes, sure. getting it really right? much more difficult, especially with a bottle. it would be easier with many bottles with several people, if it’s a concerted effort, but there’s probably a bunch of palate fatigue if we’re trying a lot of different directions.
to that end, i’d say
bring what you like and are comfortable with. since it seems that Kojima’s menu changes a bit (which is a nice thing), any pairing may not be spot on but it’s a fun attempt. i haven’t been to Kojima but typically when i corkage at somewhere solo or as a party of 2, i end up starting with a bottle of champagne or sake i’ve been saving (or don’t want to just drink at home by myself) and if there’s a red meat course, getting a btg red wine. usually the btg choices aren’t standout, but at that point in the meal i’ve probably already enjoyed a fair amount so my senses are a bit dulled and i don’t care so much.
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Says who ?
There is quite a lot of scientific research done about taste receptors and chemicals etc which clearly shows that certain compound classes can effect esch other and can have effects on different taste receptors - I highly recommend reading books (or articles) from Thomas Vilgis.
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finding a good pairing with a specific dish or two or three within a meal is definitely possible. i’ve experienced that a lot with sake especially. with ankimo, a kijoshu can be fantastic, but the really best pairings are very detailed on making a harmony / “3rd” between the production / preparation and other ingredients at play, not just on flavor but also mouthfeel, impression, etc.
but the issue at hand is finding a bottle of wine that works over many, many courses, such as there are here. for someone visiting for the first time, that’s going to be difficult. general maxims are a starting point, but nailing it will not necessarily be an exact science or that easy. in the end, i like to do corkage for fun and my own edification or to emulate a pairing i was inspired by from my travels. if it works, great. if it doesn’t, at least i’ll drink something i like. it would be easier to order based on available glasses if the restaurant stocks a lot of good things and you don’t have to bring your own with guesswork.
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It’s too bad @MaxShapiro disappeared from here as he’d be a good person to chime in on this particular discussion, but I’m fairly certain he’s in the @Clayfu camp on this one.
I’m of the opinion that truly exceptional pairings of food and wine are very hard to do, and probably also subject to your personal taste to a large degree. So it would be hard to find a “perfect” pairing of wine with a dish that would feel like that for all diners. I don’t think they are without merit though, I think a lot of the time it’s a better option than BTG, and it provides you more opportunities to taste different wines that are often new to the diner. For me seeing how 6+ tastings of wine interacts with different dishes can be more interesting than 2-3 glasses.
I think they also insulate you from unintentional bad pairings of food and wine. While it’s hard to get an exceptional match, I think it can be really easy to have a bad pairing, even if you follow the basic “rules”, and get a wine that clashes with the flavors of a dish, the wine gets lost, or the wine overwhelms the food.
However, if you’re an experienced diner and knowledgeable about wine and how you like to have it with food as @Clayfu is, I can see where it’s better to make a choice off the list. Especially if you’re willing to spend more on wine.
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If I’m drinking good old Bordeaux I’ll spring for a Flannery rib roast. There’s no better food-wine pairing than great beef and great Bordeaux. One without the other is a serious first-world problem.
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I agree that multicourse pairings are a real challenge and that’s exactly why I don’t do them. If I go for an omakase, I will likely bring champagne. IMHO, champagne is the most successful all around beverage I know of. For me it pairs with everything, including red meat. And before you can ask, I don’t think all the courses need to be magical but they will undoubtedly be delicious.
This discussion is interesting to me and points out that people experience restaurants very differently. For instance, I will not be happy if my entire order is dropped on the table in one setting. I want to enjoy the food, take it in and relax. There was a thread (Leopardo?) a while back where some would rather get everything at once and don’t mind the food rush. I don’t judge people for eating or drinking the way they like but when I see statements like this, I actually feel sorry for you. It sounds like you eat and drink in a vacuum.
champagne is boring as fuck for a pairing
champagne is not made better by eating it with fried chicken or whatever other pairing
pairings are BS in 99% of cases
You all can keep imagining that you’ve paired something and it’s magical - especially at a restaurant, but it’s not happening.
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This.
Hey guys. I’m not fully out, I just did not enjoy that one guy being a prick. I’m also pretty tapped out on bandwidth right now, so I will contribute when I can.
On the pairing discussion, I have had a few incredible singular dish pairings in my life, but they are rare. If I am given a pairing, it becomes less about whether each wine is a perfect match and more about whether the wines themselves are things I actually want to drink.
I am with Chuck on drinking what you want, though not on the champagne dismissal. Champagne is what I love, so I choose it with most things. Sake pairs with food more consistently than wine in my experience, so you really cannot go wrong there either. At the end of the day, drink what you like and you will be just fine
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Welcome back to FTC!!!
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