You are correct. They DO NOT serve lox. It is smoked. I’ve asked. Also on their about page they refer to smoked salmon.
You are also correct about Barney Greengrass. There also was a deli on Nordhoff that had belly lox. They stopped serving it a few years before they closed down.
This is the case in NYC now as well. At Russ & Daughters If you are not “of age” like me, if you ask for lox, they assume you mean nova. @robert posted an article about this somewhere.
The chefs and restaurants have been using the term interchangeably so they could bait and switch us. Pricks.
Soon, even donuts will be called bagels. Or vice versa
My only complaint, is that this batch, they were a little thick. But it doesn’t matter. LOL!
They are dense but not overly so, chewy but not too chewy. Don’t know how to describe them. And they taste great without cream cheese or butter. This is my idea of bagel perfection. Or close to it.
Ess-a-bagel has been making those incredible non-bagels in NYC since the 70’s. If there was ever a better bagel maker in NYC back then, I never had it. I have no idea if they are still as great as they were or if the competition has caught up. But I still dream of hitting up the original store on 1st Ave for a freshly made hot non-bagel.
If people love Ess-A’s poofy bread, that’s great, but they’re no more bagels than nova is lox. There’s nothing wrong with liking poofy round bread or nova except that calling them by the wrong names means that it’s hard verging on impossible to find the real thing.
From over 20 years ago on Chowhound:
Charles: I have always felt that the bagels at E-a-B (the one on First Avenue) were not only not good, but rather repulsive–mushy and sour. I was first served them about 10 years ago and felt sorry for my host who clearly had no taste. Then I saw the raves in Zagat, etc.
Elaine: … I agree that Ess-A-Bagel is actively repulsive - huge squishy foul-tasting things … some guide or other (perhaps NY magazine) once claimed greatness for them. If you didn’t grow up with good bagels (i.e., in the 90% of the country served only by Lender’s and Bruegger’s), you might be easily fooled. …
Michelle: I think it’s just a matter of what you grew up with. If you lived in the NY area and [were over 35 in 2000] you probably like the bagels which are thin, more dense with a moist inside and have a delicate crunch when you bite into them. If you’re younger you may like the fluffy ones. …
Jim Leff in reply to Michelle: Absolutely right. And I’ll take it further. Though it pains me to say it, fluffy huge airy bagels are now what “NY Style Bagels” ARE. Style is as style does, and those of us who love compact, dense, shiny, blistery bagels are a tiny fading minority. We lost.
Yeah I’m an old Jew from back east. And I’ve eaten bagels every week my entire life.
I know nothing about what a real bagel is. It’s the hole that makes it different? That’s the problem when they’re handspun. Sometimes the hole isn’t so big. Sometimes they’re puffier than other times. The texture IS NOT suffering in these. These were not “bready “at all. And that discussion calling them “fluffy?” They are idiots. Noah’s are fluffy. These are not fluffy. I like chewy dense bagels. These are perfect.
As opposed to those Montreal-looking bagel photos with the giant hole. (I know they’re not Montreal style just busting chops)
Your comparison to lox and nova is absurd.
I’m not arguing this anymore. It’s ridiculous. Though I’m up for those Bagel Hole bagels. Send me some.
Could you define “real” lox please? Also I feel so sorry for you. There are so many great bagel places in Seattle that we finally picked just one and buy them a dozen at a time and freeze them. We used to bring a couple of dozen back from Absolute Bagel in the Upper Upper West Side
Lox — or “ belly lox ,” which is the actual name for it — is salmon that has been cured in salt. (Like gravlax, which is cured in sugar and salt, there’s no smoking involved.) It’s the version of preserved salmon people ate before refrigeration was widely available; salmon from the Pacific was hauled across the country in gigantic salt baths, and fed to the Jewish immigrants of New York before a morning at shul or a long day of work. The taste of true lox is incredibly salty and assertive; “we think bagels with lox was invented because belly lox needed bread and dairy to cut it,” says Niki. “People will constantly come in and ask for lox, and it sometimes requires a little back and forth to find out what they’re actually looking for. If someone over a certain age asks assertively for belly lox, we’re not going to question him or her, but most people end up wanting one of our seven varieties of smoked salmon.”
Smoked salmon can be cold smoked as in nova/novalox or can be hot smoked (ie cooked with heat and smoke) popular in pacific northwest.
Smoked salmon is generic term used for novalox (smooth raw texture sliced thin) AND hot smoked salmon (cooked, chunky texture ) but they are completely different things.
Thanks. And is one considered better or just personal taste. (I had a long ‘discussion’ on another site with someone who said all fish eggs are caviar!)
Lox/gravlox is the easiest to make since it’s just curing in salt and sugar. Honestly, this is one item you should never buy unless strapped for time. just buy the best quality filet of salmon you can afford and cure it yourself. The discription above:
is called salt boxing and is an old method that can yield incredibly salty lox and frankly wasteful of salt and sugar. It’s a shame most recipe writers still use that method, but a more precise cure would be an equilibrium cure to the weight of the salmon. Just start at 2% salt and 2% sugar and it will never be overly salty…
I personally prefer novalox for my bagels. I like what the cold smoking adds and its what I like to make.
Lox is cured in just salt, or would be if you could find the real thing.
Gravlax is cured in salt and sugar.
Strictly speaking, nova should be from Nova Scotia and cured and smoked in a particular style. At a first-rate appetizing store or deli it will be one of several kinds of smoked salmon.
I think “nova lox” is a marketing term some vendors use to steer customers who call nova “lox” to nova.
They’re all good, just different. If I got my hands on some real lox I’d have some smoked salmon too.
like me, if you ask for lox, they assume you mean nova. @robert posted an article about this somewhere.
