TL/DR: So, if you close your eyes and just eat the bread, it seems like I’m able to turn out more consistently good product. But I don’t know why the appearance has been sh*t.
I’m seriously kind of embarrassed by this. It’s the strangest and most uneven loaf I’ve made in a long, long time. And this is supposed to be the loaf I’m bringing to a party tonight where the host always looks forward to my bread!
I don’t get… All of my attempts over the last month have been not-good, in terms of oven spring and bursting open at the scoring. Changing the water temp and the hydration has made virtually no difference (vs. my loaves from last year when changes in these parameters made rather dramatic differences). Even the 75% hydration (vs. the 78% I normally use), the loaves have still very wet and sticky when I tried to shape.
I looked promising after the cold proof b/c it had lots of bubbles. I scored w/ a serrated knife (instead of the lame) b/c I can get a deeper cut. The cuts looked good on the raw loaf but then largely sealed back up on the baked loaf. I’ve never had that happen before.
We’ll see what this latest one looks like inside (I’ll cut when I wake up), but I’m scratching my head.
This is what my bread looked like in 11/2022 and 04/2023:
Thankfully, the flavor of the loaves over the past month has consistently been very good, and the crumb is only bordering on too moist (rather than actually being too moist, as it often as been in the past). Curiously, the loaves have also stayed useable for a few days (they usually turn stable pretty quickly).
Just cut into it. This loaf is very sour and kind of gummy. It’s my worst loaf over the past month, and partner says it’s gummy enough that I should consider not bringing it. We’ll see if it dries out enough to be presentable by this evening.
Not sure what a precise thermometer would be. We have a round, hanging, analog one for the oven. I’ve actually not used it in our new (around 12/2022) oven, but I do have it in the fridge. Fridge is set to 38 deg and reads anywhere from 36–38 deg, depending on where I put the thermometer.
The thick pancake description is when I take the dough out of the banneton b/f putting it into the dutch oven. So thankfully it’s much higher than that after baking.
Not w/i the past month. The pic from 11/2022 above (1st set w/ huge lift) was using KA. I’m pretty sure I used KA bread flour based on a previous rec you had made.
2nd set from 04/2023 was using Central Milling Old World bread flour. That’s also what I’ve used for all of the test loaves this past month.
I have started refrigerating my flour, but I’m pretty sure i was doing that in 04/2023, too.
Partner was making a basque cheeecake for the first time in this new oven, and the parchment burned almost immediately (!). We’re checking the oven temp…
Our thermometer for the fridge only goes up to 80deg F.
If the range has a thermometer that plugs in to the inside of the oven, would that be fairly accurate?
Also… is it possible to get a weird batch of flour? The last 1.5 loaves were made using a new bag of Central Milling flour (I emptied in old bag and used a new bag for the loaf 2 “times” ago). I just tried to make ciabatta for the first time (so not even using my start but instead using instant yeast), and there was also no lift. Using the the dough hook at the 4 speed for ~7 mins did not result in a tight dough (more of a puddle).
I know ciabatta is very wet, this dough was insanely difficult to work w/ and got virtually no oven spring.
In reviewing my posts and notes more closely, the loaves this past month were the first time I had used Central Milling flour by itself (w/ no additional whole wheat). So maybe it IS the flour…
I tried to find KA bread flour this morning, but the one bag I found (out of 3 supermarkets!!!) had a hole. I think I’m going to try using KA for the ciabatta as a test.
for sure get a thermapen thermometer (by thermoworks as robert posted). new to reading this thread, but from your pics it does look like your shaping could be improved since you’re getting horizontal rise (pancake spreading). what kinda container are you using? have you thought about banneton?
Thanks for the input. Another TL/DR version is, why the hell is my dough so wet?
I do have a Thermapen. If i’m taking a temp reading for the oven itself, so I just open it and stick in the oven w/ the door open? I’m worried I’ll toast the electronics if I put it in there (even just for a short time) w/ the oven running at a (supposed) 490deg F w/ the door closed.
My shaping no doubt could use work, but I actually am already using a banneton… Essentially, the dough (even for the few times I used KA bread flour) normally holds a shape decently for like 2 minutes after I remove it from the banneton (which has a liner) and the starts to spread.
Part of the issue w/ my shaping is that my dough is typically SO wet. Thankfully not puddle wet, but it’s definitely not holding a shape well.
When you shape a dough btw 75-80% hydration, do you use much flour on the bench or not (this is a question for anyone reading)? I’ve read varying things about this (that you actually WANT the dough to have some level of stickness to the bench, otherwise it doesn’t actually “shape,” it just rolls).
I just mixed a new batch of dough today w/ the KA bread flour. I’m gonna already guess that my most recent issues were mainly related to the Central Milling stuff b/c, even though I was only doing the autolyze right now, it’s already way less wet than any of my last 4 batches were.
I was reading on-line that high ash content (Old World Bread Flour is has 0.80% ash) can interfere w/ gluten development.
Essentially, the dough (even for the few times I used KA bread flour) normally holds a shape decently for like 2 minutes after I remove it from the banneton (which has a liner) and the starts to spread
This sounds like your problem is the shaping of the dough before you drop it into the banneton. You want the dough skin to be tight, accomplished using the bench scraper or your hands like at this time stamp https://youtu.be/wHL44ONu3so?t=882 where you roll and tuck. yeah, you do want the dough to have some stickiness to the bench.
My problem actually starts b/f that, b/c my dough isn’t as cohesive in the video to begin w/. Or, at least, they aren’t when I don’t use KA bread flour. The dough I"ve got rising right now is still stiff that it still hasn’t fully “relaxed” even after an hr (!). We’ll see if this shapes better.
Yup, did 75% for this last one. Took forever to rise (and ended up doubling b/c I had to go to sleep and didn’t want to throw it in the fridge), and I think I didn’t cover it that well w/ the towel b/c one small portion looked, uh, dry when I took it out to shape.
But it did shape beautifully and easily. Will likely bake tonight and post.
Dough didn’t rise much in the fridge (but I also “only” left it in for 14 hrs). Held together decently after I removed it from the banneton but started spreading after scoring. The horizontal score was done w/ a serrated knife, the really shabby vertical one was done w/ a lame (I was trying to hold it at a very steep angle, which obviously did not work). I think one half burst open better b/c I scored it a second time…
More attractive browning, the scoring did burst open, and there’s air bubbles everywhere.
Partner says it looks like it got more lift than other loaves. I’m not so sure about that, but I also used 20% less flour (and adjusted all other ingredients). Aside from the lopsidedness, this is more of the correct shape (IMHO). Not sure why it came out so lopsided…
We’ll see what the crumb looks like tomorrow, but I really do think it might’ve been the change in flour…
your hydration is really high, it’s always going to spread… it’s really really pro level to be able to build strength enough to hold up that %. also over proofed and shaping issues but progress and after a few more tries you’ll get the hang of it! what temp are you proofing at? the speed is just a function of temp and starter activity
i’m happy to share my exact steps with you if it’ll help you.
I think I’m going to try using KA for the ciabatta as a test.
If i’m taking a temp reading for the oven itself, so I just open it and stick in the oven w/ the door open? I’m worried I’ll toast the electronics if I put it in there (even just for a short time) w/ the oven running at a (supposed) 490deg F w/ the door closed.
