how big is your dutch oven? i’ve been reading that if bread is too close to the sides and top it doesn’t pop as well…
most of the oven spring seems to really be about having a super active starter, timing proofing steps as well as cold ferment properly for peak performance. We’re trying to shock it with huge temperature at the exact time the cold retarded growth potential is ready to explode.
6 qt.
I think the prob w/ my oven spring is all the stuff you’ve mentioned (esp timing the last proof). My poor dough is quite slack and quickly spreads out to the sides of the dutch oven. But maybe that’s also just what happens w/ a high hydration dough?
I had decent oven spring from the recipe modification I made (mentioned above), so I’ll try it again soon to see if it’s a consistent improvement.
If your dough immediately spreads on hitting the oven, it may be your shaping needs work. It took me several baking sessions and probably close to 15 loaves to get a shaping technique that worked for me and enough practice at it to get nicely shaped boules and batards.
Also try and avoid dropping the bread into the oven. To avoid the hot sides (you ARE preheating the Dutch oven, right?) turn your loaf out from its basket onto a piece of parchment paper, score, and use the paper to lower the loaf into the Dutch oven. Leaving the pepper in place is fine and makes it easier to remove the bread when it’s done. The paper edges will scorch but has no effect on the bread that I can tell.
No, it spreads w/i a minute or two of me taking it out of the fridge! 
I do all of that (w/ the parchment paper). Parchment paper is only rated up to 450 deg, but Cook’s Illustrated says it’s fine to use (It’s Fine To Heat Parchment Paper to High Temperatures In the Oven | Cook's Illustrated). I have had the paper stick in tiny spots to the bread.
My final shaping tech could use work. I’ve watched a fair number of videos, and it’s gotten better over the yrs, but it never looks quite as good as it does in the videos I’ve seen. And I think the container I’m using for my last proof is a tad too big…
If it immediately spreads (and it is a high hydration dough) have you tried using a bit less water when setting up the dough ?
For the final proof I’ve found the baneton or other container is at least somewhat important. For boules, whatever size bowl works for you lined with a clean tea towel works great. A deeper bowl w/ steeper sides might help give you a taller loaf.
Try and stay under 75% hydration if you’re not. Mine isn’t spreading because i go from banneton directly onto parchment, scoring and into a DO. I’m sure if i leave it for a bit it’ll relax into thic pancake
That would be a very logical step that I have yet to try! I think it’s b/c, when I can get it “right,” the crumb structure is ever so lovely. But being stubborn doesn’t make for good bread.
The recipe I use is 78% hydration (and I think whole wheat and rye like to hold on to the water?), so I’ll try 75%, as @Nemroz mentions. Was just reading on a Reddit thread that even a 3% reduction can make a (positive) difference.
@lectroid: I actually have a couche that I’ve ever used! I’m so worried that the dough will stick (when I’ve tried to make the Forkish country blonde recipe, the final dough is just a wet, slack mess). So I actually wipe a bowl w/ cooking spray so that it all slides out easily. I’ll start w/ a smaller container.
Okay, I feel like I have some ideas for the next attempt! 
Thanks, all.
the linen lined bannetons make everything so easy… i need to get a 3rd one actually.
Do you use AP or bread flour ? since you use also WW flour which tends to cut gluten strands it is better to use bread flour as it will give better dough structure
‘Real’ bannetons are ridiculously expensive. I use a couple of wicker restaurant breadbaskets lined with a tea towel and dust the loaf liberally w/ rice flour before putting it in. Zero stickage problems with 75% hydration doughs.
i finally bought a liner for mine but i’ve never had a problem with anything sticking either way. I think the first time or two i rubbed some rice flour in there just in case but after that i’ve just dusted with regular flour
All purpose.
But will bread flour also make for a more closed crumb?
And it’s just tea towel + rice flour? I tried rice flour once, but that was on a plastic bowl, and I had used some cooking spray, too (I got the cooking spray idea from a Jacques Pepin episode). It wasn’t pretty.
Does a banneton (real or otherwise) make a huge difference? I read somewhere that the airflow might be important for the dough (I use plastic, so obv no airflow). I have a real banneton (2, actually), but they were just WAY too big for my dough.
Huh? I paid like 12$ for 2 of them. Did prices spike ?
About, oh, 2017 or so, after I had gotten my boule shaping under control, I wanted to try batards, so I went hunting for bannetons, both online and at local restaurant supply houses.
For whatever reason, I could only ever find ‘authentic french bannetons made of genuine fancy french willow’ or some such and they wanted $20+/ea. And of course they came w/ a fancy linen liner.
I got two bread baskets for $1.50/ea. Had the towels already.
– Home is where you wear your hat.
In my experience bread flour makes for a more open crumb. Bread flour will lead to a better gluten network and thereby better trap the CO2 (and alcohol) of the yeast which ultimately will give an open crumb
An open or closed crumb is mostly down to two things: hydration and dough handling. If you want an open crumb, use a relatively high hydration (70%+) and handle your dough GENTLY. That means letting time and a stretch and fold method while bulk fermenting to build your gluten, and not aggressively punching down the dough after the bulk when you’re doing the preshape.
For a more close crumb (like dinner rolls or sandwich bread), use a lower hydration level (mid 60’s-ish?) and a mixer (or be all macho and do it by hand) and knead your dough 'til it can come close to passing the window pane test. Then let rise and punch down and shape as you normally would.
The Food Geek youtube channel has run a number of experiments concerning flour types (AP vs Bread vs Whole Wheat), hydration levels, starter percentages, and a bunch of other stuff. I strongly recommend going through his archive. Lots of good info.
That might be also helpful
Yes, just a tea towel and rice flour. Cooking spray is also an option if you’re using something solid like a bowl, but use a towel and flour OR cooking spray. Not both.
With a banneton or other basket-like-thing, cooking spray won’t work, obv. I know plenty of folks who use unlined bannetons just fine. Some really like the liners.
As to air-flow, I think with home baking, nothing we do will be consistent enough where super subtle things like that will be our make or break points. A professional who has a rigidly controlled procedure AND massive output can see small changes magnified in volume. I make 2 battards or 3 baguettes at a time. No way can I make any judgements about ‘air flow’. 
King Arthur open crumb tips
hm. this directly contradicts my ‘hydration’ advice. I’m just some schmuck in my kitchen going off my VERY LIMITED experience. The King Arthur folks, presumably, are professionals. I will not presume to tell them their business.