You’re right that it wasn’t that simple, but that was the crux of it. I know that Mastros-like stuff really bothered you as you’ve not been silent about it. We can go into infinitesimal detail and back&forth about it, but I think that would only be rehashing what has already been discussed.
I think many of us left CH for the reason you mention, but for me, it also included the fact that CH mods were using way too much license - “It’s big daddy’s ball but I’m in charge here - if you want to play with his ball, you’d better play by my rules.” CH in essence ordered, “Release the hounds!”, mods censoring and banning folks with really no good reason other than disagreeing with someone who has more power than you. This shouldn’t result in CH dismemberment or banishment. To see kevin loosen up full throttle is far more appealing than the CH alternative - pinching down hard enough to snap a pencil. It’s pretty much deciding between free speech or no free speech. If you choose the former, one has to tolerate a lot of stuff you may not want to see or hear.
It sure isn’t, but who decides what is appropriate and what are the ramifications? Examples of this issue playing out right now in so many places around the world.
Condoning prostitution is a topic where one’s personal opinions come into play for the most part. I agree that this is not the forum for this discussion, and can’t defend kevin for this kind of entry. But at the same time, to approve or disapprove of the issue is from a personal perspective, weighing the pros and cons of its social aspects from many angles.
Something I should reiterate is the issue of just moving on. If someone posts something that severely impinges on your personal values, yet is not disallowed on this forum, move on. I vaguely recall those posts that obviously distress you - I’m sorry for it and don’t mean to rehash it.I had a, “WTF is kevin doing?” moment when reading it, but at the same time - as I mentioned before - this side of kevin is the one that reminds me of the guy at the bar - I’ve been subject to far worse. The context of those comments relative to this forum’s focus is not appropriate, no doubt. Whether I agree with the post or not, it’s there and unless those running the show do something about it, I just need to keep going - kinda like real life.
Honestly I was under the impression that he had memory problems because he would always ask the same questions on the same topics over and over again. And back then I was more tolerant and would repeatedly answer him because I thought they were genuine questions.
Then he wrote and posted a few magnificent pieces and that’s when I realized he was just fucking with me.
And that’s when I ignored his posts.
I found the F bombs and punctuation annoying but I never complained to anyone about that.
It was the constant where to find certain girls at Mastro’s Penthouse Beverly Hills that was absurd.
And looking at those threads and looking at the vegan thread and several others, all of which I am guilty of, you wonder just maybe if the CH mods were right in being fine with letting a certain subset go. Myself included.
But at every bar there is a point where even the best bartender or owner recognize that too many customers get annoyed by this one immature, loud guy and that they loose customers if he continuous to be as obnoxious. And so they ask him to be quieter or leave. Everything afterwards is just the decision of the guy and nobody else to blame (even though some people always try to create the impression that the guy is the poor victim)
Think of “bar” as a euphemistic metaphor. Whether it’s a bar, a sandlot football game, a pack of cyclers, a poker game, or hanging out in the backyard nursing cold ones where a bunch of guys are shooting the breeze, joking, lobbing put-downs at each other, etc. In this setting, kevin is rated PG.
And if you want to stick purely to a bar scenario, I can’t imagine this kind of stuff going on at the Polo Lounge-type places, but most other bars are so loud a frenetic that no one’s voice carries further than two feet. And kevin doesn’t seem to be the guy who to dismiss a bar keep’s advice and have himself removed. A person who walks away from FTC to avoid further conflict twith others doesn’t ring of thug, hooligan or trouble maker.
I don’t think kevin views himself as a victim. And if pro-kevin posters seem to be portraying him as a victim, maybe there is some truth to it. There are other posters who have a propensity to be acrid, snarky and disrespectful, making presumptive remarks. Yet they continue on. Is it the way they state it? Is it because they’ve laced it between substantive body? Is it because this forum is far more loose with restrictions? Whatever the case, no repercussions. And that’s fine, because it shows a level of restraint and tolerance that is sorely lacking in today’s society, particularly online.
Personally, I feel I can differentiate between someone who is just being a bit adolescent and someone who is being snarky and mean-spirited. kevin never posted in a way to directly snark, insult or demean another poster. Those insulted by what he stated seem to be more bothered by his violation of puritan-based ethics and social standards. I get that. At the same time, where do we draw the line? Do we eventually whittle down the group of posters to the Pope and archangels and then have them go at it to gain the “Holier than thou” trophy?
Determining who and what is inappropriate can be a slippery slope. I also think attempting to achieve a certain homogeneity makes things far too boring.
Compromise is the way to avoid conflict and reconcile differences.
An all or nothing approach only works if you hold all the cards.
@bulavinaka you want to discuss on a philosophical level at what point you draw the line (again with this black vs white, all or none, crossing a certain line thinking). It’s a basic individual vs community argument. The extent and limits of individual expression in society. What happens if everyone were just allowed to do what they want? A basic question discussed in a basic college philosophy course.
Kevin is free to come and go as he pleases. As is Servorg. As is JJ. As is you or I. He values his personal expression more than this community. That is his right and decision as a free individual.
But he seems to be the guy many people in bar roll their eyes and try to avoid and he is the guy many people who haven’t meet but heard about “help” them to make the decision to not visit the bar at all in the future.
Not a thug but as a person who is not interested in compromises when intetacting with other people. Bartender Ipse never asked him to leave but just asked him why he is so loud in this bar and Kevin decided to walk out - no big loss.
There are other disrespectful posters and everybody reacts differently to them - personally I can’t take their food related contributions ever serious if I can’t take other parts of their personality serious.
I assume the line is when Ipse gets the impression due to feedback that the benefit of poster like Kevin doesn’t outweight the disadvantage of his style to attract new people to this community. I don’t think FTC will survive for very long if it is just a small LA focused board with very few regular posters.
I don’t know if it is so much philosophical. The point has played out in this topic by kevin choosing to leave on his own accord (which is black and white where he holds no cards). People voiced their opinions, he probably felt it was better to not interface anymore based in the brooding conflicts, and everybody moved on.
So who do we voice up against next? That is my question. Sure, Popes and archangels push this into philosophical debate, but my feelings are, if kevin gets time under scrutiny, why don’t we do that to each and every person who is perceived by others to be rubbing others the wrong way? I’m a jerk for blathering on and digging my heels in. Person B is a jerk for bias and snark. Person C is a jerk for digging up little snippets from long ago that really seem meaningless and are only meant to be a petty, “I told you so.” Target me. I just can’t shut up. Govts do it all the time. Why don’t we behave in kind?