Eating meat: threat or menace?

The menu indicates which dishes are vegan.

Butter and eggs are usually made from plants.

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Something is either vegan or not - a crostata isn’t vegan


You’re arguing against a straw man. I never said the crostata was vegan.

Do you read or remember (or understand) your own stuff ? Apparently being “vegan” is too much sacrifice for you

At this point I have no idea what you’re arguing about.

Being vegan would have meant sacrificing the pleasure of that crostata.

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This absolutism seems anachronistic. I’m not sure what place it is of yours to tell me what it means to be vegan. Anyway, I’m not going to engage in argument about it.

"I don’t know what you mean by ‘glory,’ " Alice said.

Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. “Of course you don’t—till I tell you. I meant ‘there’s a nice knock-down argument for you!’”

“But ‘glory’ doesn’t mean ‘a nice knock-down argument’,” Alice objected.

“When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.”

“The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.”

“The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “which is to be master—that’s all.”


It doesn’t much matter whether you’re a level 5 vegan or whatever, truly your prerogative, and in most cases people would cut you some slack on this post. But your presence on here is often (though not solely) trolling and absolutist: covid, langers, mariscos jalisco, adb off memory. And you’ve created a ranking system though you don’t consume, because of dietary restrictions, large swaths of the output of restaurants you’re evaluating. You have some antagonists on here, true, but you also needlessly antagonize, so some are highlighting an apparent contradiction.


To be fair, we ate the pastrami sandwich, and we were not impressed. Langer’s is just not very good IMO. Maybe it has the “world’s best pastrami,” but that’s like telling me it has the “world’s best hot dog” or the “world’s best deep fried snickers bar.”

Mariscos Jalisco is solid. I awarded it 2-3 Warrior Points. I would put it on the high end of that range, probably around 2.8. I’ve been pretty positive about Mariscos Jalisco.

Thank you for your reasoned perspective. We appreciate it.

So what is your top ranking pastrami ?

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More for @PeonyWarrior than for @ShadrackToussaint

I can’t speak for most people, but I do actually think it is very important (for a variety of reasons that may not be necessary to discuss here) that when someone uses the word “vegan,” that they only use that term when the product does not have anything that was animal-derived (and I say this as someone who is neither a vegetarian nor a vegan).

We have all sorts of pedantic conversations here about relatively obscure (to the general population) terms. “Vegan” (AFAIK) isn’t really a word that has any wiggle room.

But, as always, I deeply respect and appreciate your diplomacy, @ShadrackToussaint. :slight_smile:


The only pastrami I’ve ever eaten is Langer’s pastrami.

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I had some delicious plant-based meat the other day. It’s made from grass and corn using a four-chamber fermenter.

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I edited my Ceci’s post for clarity.


there exist ‘potential loopholes’ by which one might claim to be vegan and still eat meat, but for a large number of vegans, this would be pointless because veganism is as much if not more about the animals as it is for the environment or dietary health. (
thus why honey is not vegan… such loopholes are a little more debatable for non-food items like leather, but the only slight wiggle-room i know of foodwise is oysters, although the vast majority of vegans would never eat them either.

having had to plan eating tours around vegan restrictions, it takes an immense amount of sacrifice.


How could you rationalize oysters to be vegan?

At 66 replies long, I’ll read the thread later today. :wink:

I do agree w/ you that, for vegans (or, at least, the vegans I know) it’s more about the animals than it is about anything else.

Avocados are also technically not vegan (bees are apparently involved in the production of avocados)!

I will also second @robert’s quesiton: oysters???

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some people say that since they don’t feel pain, it’s ok to eat them, as it is not necessarily inconsistent with the ideology of veganism. the strict ruling is that since they are not plants they are not vegan, and ‘vegans’ that eat oysters are certainly on the fringe. veganism opens itself up to loopholes because it accepts the practical realities of living in a non-vegan society, but if you have to argue for why something is actually vegan, then most vegans probably don’t consider it vegan…

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