Eating meat: threat or menace?

… avocados and almonds aren’t the only crops that are pollinated in this manner. … Other fruits and vegetables that may be produced through migratory pollination include apples, plums, cherries, alfalfa, blueberries, watermelon, cantaloupe, cucumbers, pumpkin, lettuces, squash and tangerines.


For me, it’s mostly about fighting climate change. The two biggest causes of climate change are gas cars and animal food products, both easily within our control.

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And this belies the issue. Again I do appreciate the content you add to this this board, but blanket takes on things you’re not very well versed in, not interested in, or didn’t do your homework on… Why? Saying you don’t like Langer’s is fine in theory, but if you don’t eat much Jewish deli, why even share that? Is it substantive or informed? Can someone learn from it and index their own taste? This forum is not your diary.

Another way of saying: your map (your personal, parochial concerns) is not the territory. Based on the comparisons, obviously you think this type of food, Jewish deli, is low culture and at its best not very interesting or worthy of respect. Without even adjudicating that, can you not see how someone might take offense to that? Or simply find it chauvinistic, immature, and ridiculous? We can easily sub out ‘pastrami’ and ‘deep fried snickers’ for various other foods/ food cultures. I grew up in a place where people called vegetarian rabbit food and sushi bait. While it’s not some deep, cancelable offense, using that structure would make me question taste, judgment, and critical thinking. This is essentially the equivalent, filtered through your own set of concerns.

More broadly, there’s a larger issue: objectivity. Your personal opinions and statements about food don’t exist in absolute, objective, numerical terms. No one food culture or cuisine is necessarily better than another. And if you wanna comment on something, maybe do your homework, no? I’m much more interested in how something, some dish or restaurant, relates to its category, canon, or history. When you discover or review a new vegan burrito, that’s interesting and useful. You obviously have a background in that, not to mention relevant experience and a developed palate. Same with upscale Italian restaurants, and chef-y restaurants in general (minus my quibble about evaluating without eating meat). But when you comment on things you don’t know much about, then protest at the pushback, it’s hard not to read as anything other than a bad faith troll.


Pastrami or anything else but isn’t it nearly impossible to say if something is good or not if you don’t have any references. The only thing you can say at this point might be that you don’t like pastrami in general


We liked the pastrami okay. It tasted liked an inferior version of Japanese wagyu, which is the beef I’m most familiar with.

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Quick response:

I am not an expert on “Jewish deli” food and have made no broad claims about it. I’m just saying the food I’ve eaten at Langer’s has been poor and has displayed little care about quality. Do I need to eat at dozens of Jewish delis to know that the vegetables and cheeses at Langer’s suck and that Langer’s supermarket condiments are inferior to homemade condiments? Honestly speaking, I think the people who praise Langer’s—when there are overwhelmingly higher quality restaurants in the same price range across many different cultural cuisines—are the ones being parochial. It’s not right that critic after critic praises Langer’s and then Mama D’s, a far superior restaurant, goes out of business.

Everyone brings their own perspective. I don’t have to defend mine.

i don’t


No disrespect but every food should be seen in the context of how it is made, ingredients, techniques etc and comparing pastrami to Japanese wagyu shows quite an inexperience (to but it mildly) in knowledge about ingredients, techniques etc (which seems to be pretty common theme throughout your food related posts far beyond pastrami) - is it wrong to assume you don’t cook much (or at all) ?


You functionally said a whole cuisine was at the level of hot dogs or deep fried snickers. You can’t just skate on that. And it’s not the first time, claiming things are low class, for poor people or low culture. Your willingness to give blanket opinions on things you don’t know much about, don’t like or haven’t explored is chauvinistic and tiresome, and it undercuts any credence I’d give to your taste or opinion on many things (specifically things where you do seem to have an informed, interesting, developed perspective).

To bastardize the bard, there are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy. A little humility and curiosity go a long way.


That’s a gross oversimplification. New cars have big carbon footprints that offset years of any reduction in direct duel consumption.

There are no EVs. They are battery vehicles reflecting the electricity’s origins. If I were to buy an EV in Manitoba, it would be a 100% hydroelectricity, truly zero carbon energy, car. In North China it is a 90% coal car, in France it is a 70% nuclear car, in Russia mostly a natural gas car and in Denmark a 50% wind car et cetera.

But that is only as far as the direct energies go. Indirect energies going into the production of steel, plastics, glass and batteries are still mostly fossil fuels, because the world’s primary energy use is now still 83% dependent on fossil carbon. The notion that any EV is a zero-carbon car is nonsense.

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Well we need to move to nuclear energy immediately.

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Pastrami is a form of processed meat. I do not consider it quality food. It is like a hot dog. (Yes I’d say the same about prosciutto etc.) It’s not fair to extrapolate from this that I have criticized an entire cuisine.

More gross oversimplification. From that same article:

Fossil fuels now supply about 83% of the world’s commercial energy, compared to 86% in the year 2000. The new renewables (wind and solar) now provide (after some two decades of development) still less than 6% of the world’s primary energy, still less than hydroelectricity.

What are the chances that after going from 86% to 83% during the first two decades of the 21st century the world will go from 83% to zero during the next two decades? …

… most people think of decarbonization as just an electricity problem. They do not realize the amount of energy used directly, as fuels and electricity, and indirectly as feedstocks to make materials that define modern civilization.

Without modern nitrogen fertilizers we could feed only about half of today’s humanity. They start with ammonia, and ammonia synthesis is based mostly on natural gas. No material is made in larger quantity than cement, the key ingredient of concrete, the ubiquitous construction material. Steel comes second and iron smelting needs coke made from coal. Synthesis of plastics needs natural gas and oil as feedstocks and fuel.

You really have no idea about food at all apparently (and that’s not about prosciutto specifically). (And by your definition pasta is also processed food and should be avoided)

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Sophistry. And a category functionally nonsensical for this discussion.

I pretentiously quoted Hamlet for a reason. You’d do better, at least on here, if you tried to understand things from different perspectives as opposed to shoehorning everything into your own personal schema and expecting everyone to accept your biases and assumptions without comment. FTC isn’t a diary or your personal Substack. Your opinions, my opinions, anyone’s really are not in and of themselves, before-the-fact interesting or necessary. Your personal categorizations are not objectively true or productive. Blanket takes like this come off as egoistic and immature. In what way does that comment lead to a productive discussion? It (not saying all your comments) leads me to believe your opinions are at times self involved, superficial, and lacking curiosity or depth.


Pasta is not carcinogenic like pastrami and prosciutto. You all wear masks to the beach and then go eat pastrami, it makes no sense at all.

The bottom line is you don’t like my opinion that Langer’s is terrible. I don’t need additional credentials to express that opinion. I’ve given a clear explanation for why Langer’s is terrible; I didn’t just state my opinion. I’ve provided photos evidencing that Langer’s is terrible. I’m not sure what more you want me to do except change my opinion to match yours. Won’t do.

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Prosciutto di San Daniele and Jamon Serrano and Iberico are cured with only table salt, no nitrates or nitrites, and are not smoked.

If you want to avoid all smoked foods because of cancer risk, that’s your business, but you’re probably as consistent about that as you are about following a vegan diet. I eat smoked meat in moderation but eat almost no factory food as it’s full of carcinogens that don’t even taste good.


Thanks we will eat more of those! To be honest I kind of like the Spanish ham from the pig that eats the acorns. Prosciutto, I could take it or leave it.

Since you have shown many times that you don’t believe in science I don’t even want to start discussions about clinical evidence about positive or negative effects of food on the human body (as there are very few beside underpowered, anecdotal ones - which than are often cited in newspapers as “evidence”)
BTW - it is kind of ironic that somebody scientific adverse mentions often cancerous and mask but has no problems living in a city with high levels of fine dust pollution (which has actually shown to cause cancer (among other diseases)

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