The Bread Thread

First a disclaimer; I am not a professional baker, and much of the information I give here is not intended to be be-all and end-all advice. I am sure many who post here are better bread makers than I am. I have been making bread for over 40 years so here is some of what I have gleaned.
First off let me recommend three excellent books; “My Bread” by Jim Lahey, “Flour, Water, Salt, Yeast” by Ken Forkish, and “Artisan Breads Everday” by Peter Reinhart. The recipe I use most often is Ken Forkish’s White Bread with Poolish.
There are two very important elements that distinguish French, or Italian, bread from American. First, and most important, is the leavening process. Second is the baking environment.
French bread gets is wonderful flavor and texture from a long slow rise. In almost all cases it is a lean dough with no sugar or fat added. A minimal amount of yeast is added and the dough is fermented at a cool temperature. This forces the yeast to work harder and it produces an enzyme that transforms the flavor and texture of the bread. This is the key to French bread.
After the lengthy proofing the loaves are baked in a very hot oven. Key to the wonderful crust is a moist environment during the initial baking period. Professional bakers have steam injected ovens. We home cooks have to improvise to try and reproduce this.
Okay those two principles are the key. My slightly modified version of Mr. Forkish’s recipe follows:
For the initial pre-ferment (poolish)
500 g all purpose unbleached white flour (3 7/8 cups)
500 g 80 degree water (2 1/4 cups - I approximate the temp)
.4 g yeast (scant 1/8 tsp - I use Saf-Instant brand)
Mix all ingredients together, and leave at room temperature for 12 to 14 hours. When the poolish is ready it will be full of bubbles, and you will see some popping up every few seconds.
The final dough mixture:
500 g flour
250 g 105 degree water ( again I approximate the temp)
21 g salt (its about 4 tsp but you really have to weigh it if you can)
3 g yeast (3/4 tsp)
All the poolish from above
Mix everything together really well. Be sure you don’t have lumps of flour! You will need to stretch and fold the dough three times during the first hour. To do this you grab an edge of the dough, stretch it out and fold it over the center. Repeat around all four corners of your dough.
Then let it all rise until it is 2 1/2 times the initial volume. Mr. Forkish says this takes 2 to 3 hours but I have had it take as much as 5.
Now you form into loaves. They will need to rise for at least an hour, so start your oven preheating. If you are doing boules put an oven proof covered Dutch oven in the oven (if you have a Le Creuset dutch oven with the black plastic handle please note it will melt if you go over 375). If you are doing baguettes or ciabatta you will need to create a moist environment. The easiest way to do it is to put an oven proof pan (not glass!) on your oven floor. A baking stone or steel should placed on an upper shelf of the oven. Preheat your oven to 475 for at least 45 minutes. For a boule you dump the dough into the Dutch oven being careful not to burn yourself. Cover the pot and bake for 30 minutes. Uncover and bake for another 20 to 30.
For baguettes, carefully put hot water in your steam pan, and slide the baguettes onto the steel with your peel and bake for around 30 minutes until they are done to your liking. Cool on a rack for at least 40 minutes. People love the idea of hot bread, but lean breads like this need to cool down to develop the proper crumb.
I use a custom set up with one of these, on the lowest shelf of my oven and a baking stone/steel sandwich on the second highest shelf. Because French bread dough has such high hydration it can be difficult to slide it off a peel so I cheat by using a baguette pan that I sawed off to fit in the oven insert. My timing is preheat for an hour at 485. Bake for 15 minutes in the closed insert, pull out the loaves and put them directly on the steel for another 10 to 15 minutes. That way I can keep baking by putting the next loaf in the insert. Here are pictures of my set up:

Okay that’s a start. I’m hoping other bakers such as @Happybaker, @attran99, Mama Wire Monkey, @robert, and @Emglow101 and others will add to this thread so we can learn from each other.
BTW this method utilizes a pre-ferment. I made some bread today that bulk ferments instead. It is an extremely wet dough, but yields great results. I will post about that later.
Here are pictures to compare:


I’ve found that instant yeast is happy with tap-temperature water.

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Me too, but Mr. Forkish has a whole section about water temperature and yeast, and I try and respect a recipe author’s opinion.

Thank you for taking the time to post your method. I’m better at pastry than at bread, but with all this quarantine time I’ve been trying bread baking again. It’s always great to find out what works for other people; great way to pick up tips and hacks to make a better loaf.


Nice loaves! I have been baking at home for a few years. In terms of gear I recently upgraded to one of these from a dutch oven and love it:

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@ebethsdad, Thanks so much for taking the time for this detailed and probably time consuming post. Very helpful to beginners like me.

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Thank you. Feel free to message me if you have questions that, hopefully, I can answer. Planning to add several other posts to this thread including shokupan, bagels, and the ever elusive Vietnamese baguette - if I ever master it. From what I can discern, after several failed attempts, it goes against everything I have put forth here - high gluten, rich dough, fast rise - don’t need the flavor of slow rise when it would be drowned out by the intense flavors of a banh mi sandwich. Anyone who can help, (cough, cough, @attran99), I would appreciate advice.
Anyone needing flour and yeast once again gets in fresh shipments every Wednesday, at least for now.


I’m new to the bread game. The only thing I know about banh mi baguettes is that there’s rice flour in the mix to lighten up the crumb. I’m just trying to master regular sandwich breads before I travel down the crusty breads path.

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Some people say yes about the rice flour, others say no. When I get back from backpacking this week (yes - trails are open!!) I will experiment. I was hoping you had a family secret!

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We’re not a family of bread makers. I can ask my Mom to ask the Le family when she sees them next maybe? They’re from the same village as my Dad’s in the old country.


Please do, although from what I have read most Vietnamese buy their loaves as ovens are not that common, and the bakeries are so wonderful. Many Europeans did the same as for instance the wonderful Alsatian flammekueche which was baked in the dying embers of the village bakery’s fire. Still if you can extract any secrets from the Les I would so appreciate it! Vietnamese cuisine, IMHO, is one of the best fusion cuisines in the world. The best of Asia and the best of Europe, melded into a wonderful melange of fresh vegetables, herbs, pickles, proteins, and sauces. I could really go for a banh mi right now!

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I’m never going to try to get professional-type results so long as I live in Berkeley. I can get a perfect baguette or levain from Acme whenever I want.

I made this yesterday since my KitchenAid is in the shop:

Pretty good for that kind of dense hippie style. Might be nice to add some millet for crunch.

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Last night I attempted banh mi, both the bread and the sandwich. I used this recipe, Banh Mi Recipe - crispy crust soft airy crumb - Vietnamese Baguette - Banh Mi vo gion ruot xop - YouTube. It turned out pretty well. Next time I will bake at a higher temperature for a little less time as the texture wasn’t quite there yet.


Has anyone here used the King’s Roost bulk buying option (as mentioned in this excellent article)? I earmarked it a while back along with Grist and Toll as a place where my mom might want to source grain and flour but the logistics haven’t quite worked out yet. Would love to find out if anyone has any input about either business.

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Bristol Farms carries Grist and Toll if you haven’t tried out their flour and you live near a BF.

Oooh, that’s a good idea. It might be worth giving my mom a sample of a couple pounds before committing to something larger

I have done the King’s Roost bulk buy and bought from Grist and Toll. Both great businesses. Very kind, knowledgeable people at both spots. Unless your mom is milling herself I would say Grist and Toll is the way to go. If she is going to mill she should get in on the bulk order at King’s Roost. I did this and split it with a friend last year and am working my way through the grain. Nothing like fresh milled flour.


Good point, I forgot to mention she does mill it herself so maybe King’s Roost is the way to go. She doesn’t live here so it’s really just been a matter of coordinating the order while the pallet fills up and us visiting them or vice versa.

That brings up a another point you might have some insight on, @doughboy: I know grain generally speaking stores better than flour (as long as you store it properly, avoid mice, weevils, etc., obviously) but does it decline in quality over time? That is, if we purchased some from King’s Roost but couldn’t deliver it for a few months is it still of decent quality (especially considering a bulk order would continue to sit as the order is used up like yours)?

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Whether it sits at your house or the warehouse, the grain’s going to be the same until the next harvest.

I have no insight and am a novice baker but I think it’s great that we have a doughboy in the bread thread.